Anything that can affect what the computer thinks it is seeing needs to be addressed. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Dazed in Conufsed V8 is working on a 3v swap last I heard. Winsors have an 8 bolt crank and Romeos have a 6 bolt. The biggest challenges to installing the engine are the width and height. All other intake will be truck intake that will be sticking out of the hood. The 4R100 is quite a bit larger than the 4R70W, but a little smaller than the TorqShift. I like the idea of a 3v over a coyote because I like how people **** on 3v's now that the coyotes came out but its still a great motor with less displacement and headflow. The first DOHC engines were installed in Lincolns way back in 1993. Here are some of the bigger hurdles to consider if using a Ford wiring harness and computer. JavaScript is disabled. Read this over, has all the info needed, use your stock 4.6 mounts. Paul did tell me that it took awhile to tune the PCM from the mustang and he spliced a stock 6.2l and 4.6l 3v harness together. That's the cam phasing + 6 speed auto. Now I want to put a V10 in for fun. Gone are the days of the old oscilloscope, and now every mechanic has a scan tool to talk to the computer. A remote oil filter mount and oil-to-air cooler are also used. WIth the mechanical work wrapped in the shop, Matt strapped her down to the rollers to get dialed in by Vlad via HP Tuners. Through the years, numerous companies have attempted to build harnesses, and I have tried many of them, with varying degrees of success. An aftermarket stainless-steel stock tank was modified to accept the 2003 fuel pump assembly and locate the fuel pump at the correct height. Hi guys, yesterday my engine decided that 182,xxx miles was enough and developed a rod knock, i drained the oil today and yep, all glittery and such. You will be shortening, lengthening, and removing circuits from your harnesses in almost every case. Ford is very good at keeping the wiring colors consistent, but it doesn't really want you interchanging harnesses. Zlib compression enabled. Electronics are also borrowed from the Cobra donor car and the stock EEC-V computer is re-flashed. Some systems computers can be reprogrammed via the Internet through built in Wi-Fi or through a laptop. Fuel is delivered based on throttle plate position and engine RPM, and the computer reads the manifold vacuum and controls fuel accordingly. Typical installations do not use all the wiring from a factory harness, and to save space and weight you will be pulling some wires out of the harness. Most aftermarket programmers have data logging and error code reading capabilities built in, so they are all-in-one solutions. With incredible quality and customer support, Ron Francis offers plug-and-play functionality and years of reliable service. When using factory computers and wiring, pay close attention to the connectors. The TorqShift is A LOT larger. Ford has used at least four different computer systems to control the modular engines. Cookie Policy - The long blacks are the SAME. When your computer sets an error code, it records exactly what was happening when the error occurred. Get about the same power but the Marauder gets much worse fuel economy. Only car that came with more than two valves was the Marauder which had a 4v. A zealous car geek since birth, he digs lead sleds, curvy fiberglass, kustoms and street rods. This police car unit is very big and difficult to use in a swap due to the speedometer calibration system. And maxing out the cam phasers pretty much defeats the whole purpose of the 3v setup. dedicated to the 2003+ Crown Vic swap in F100 specifically to the 53-56 but pre 53 and post 57 are welcome. These computers are all mass airflow design, so they must use an airflow meter to measure the amount of air going into the engine. 90% of the 4V's airflow in a narrower package. I have no idea what engine I'm going to use. I'd like to keep the stock gauges, and keep the stock column but I suppose i don't need to for the column. If you liked this article you will LOVE the full book. There's nothing strikingly different about them in comparison to 2v or 4v pistons other than slight notches at the edge. It doesnt require drive-by-wire or control of variable cam timing, and there are plenty of aftermarket power adders to make the Terminator a good choice for a swap. 96 F150 5.0 Firing OrderFiring order 1996 ford f-150 5. You'll notice that the Triton 4.6 3v and the Marauder 4.6 (4v?) Using Ford factory wiring harnesses is an option for most engines and projects. oil pan, EGR, wiring harness. 3v conversion is not possible at the time, the junkyard already sold the pcm and wiring harness. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. The factory system allows you to use and control components such as automatic transmissions, ABS units, and fuel systems without extra controllers. Other than the aforementioned variable cam phasing and some solution for a manual throttle body. Follow the recommendations in this chapter to select the best computer and wiring system for your engine. Mass air systems do not require many fuel curve tables and can calculate the most efficient ratio on the fly. _____ Best time 13.079 @ 105 1.8 60 . (with pics of course). The newer the computer and the greater the number of sensors, the more information there is available. Click the button below and we will send you an exclusive deal on this book. and used safety glass to fill in the rear windows. We promise not to use your email address for anything but exclusive updates from the Power Automedia Network. The newer the engine, the more difficult it is to use a factory system. The rear suspension is also out of a 2003 Cobra, but its slightly modified to work with the mini tubs provided by Autoworks International. (Photo Courtesy HPT). So a freer breathing head would make more horsepower, and the 5.4's added displacement can still keep intake velocity up at lower RPMs, which is where torque is made. The EEC-V computer can be identified by the four rows of control pins in its main connector. This customer opted for a Mustang II front-end conversion from Rod and Custom Motorsports. A Crown Victoria engine and a Mustang engine may have the same connector, but Ford changes the pinouts of the wires in the connector. Ford wiring diagrams are available to the public through Helm Inc. (helminc. If you get a 3V computer, you can run the VVT and shut up these nay-sayers. Programmers were first told that PATS was hard-wired into the computer, but this turned out to be not true or they were able to get around it. The problem has been resolved, and now programming the new computers is no problem. but on the down side youll have a car bolt pattern on the front but i guess you could have the rotors redrilled. Head swap from 2v to 3v [Re: LT1L98LS6] 2004_p71 no replacement for displacement Posting Addict Registered: 09/04/03 Posts: 16010 The location of components can be a disadvantage and often an obstacle with the factory system. CrownVic.net is a forum and information center dedicated to the Ford Crown Victoria and its siblings: Mercury Grand Marquis, Mercury Marauder, and Lincoln Town Car. Make the donor look like the original (electrically). i bought a 6.2l short block and heads for it. Whether you prefer a physical book. A simple error code reader can be had for little cost at most auto parts stores. While there the factory 4.6 L 2v Read More 1996 Crown Victoria with a 460 ci V8 Update 3 October 22, 2021 Crown Victoria The throttle-by-wire systems include this servo motor thats attached to the throttle body to move the throttle plate. During the EEC-V era, Ford transitioned away from coil pack ignition to a coil-on-plug (COP) system. Advertising - SCTs Eliminator Switch Chip is a plug-in device that can store up to five custom programs on one chip. The main problem right now with the 5.4 options is that there are only one intake designed to fit under the hood og the crown vic and it's the hps intake. The factory air-intake tubing was used and mounted to the old battery area. The wires wrap around the heater box and the secondary connectors are part of the under-dash wiring. Using the 2003 Cobra hydroboost also aids in moving the engine back to the firewall. About this group. Romeo, Windsor, Teksid, WAP, Triton & Intech - What's In A Name? Sounds neat, i wonder what it'd get for mpg being in something a little lighter and more aerodynamic haha. The small compact size makes it handy when traveling (e.g., if you want to carry different tunes for different grades of gas), and it can be licensed to tune more than one vehicle, so no need for a separate tuner for each of your rides. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. as well i will be making me a sheet metal intake manifold for it since no one makes any induction pieces for the 6.2 i was wondering if any one could help me on this. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.5.9. or some sort of power adder. Ford also has used some creative routing for some of the wires, requiring you to get all the wiring harnesses from your donor car. The latest systems cannot only give you the basic error codes, but can log information on the engine and systems when an error occurs, provide real-time running information on the performance of the engine, and be programmed over the Internet for engine and drivetrain improvements for both performance and efficiency. When I had my Cobra in for warranty service back in '99 the dealership had in the garage a 4.6L-32V Crown Vic from Ford. No, the late model 3v has cam phasing as well, and it's mated to the 6R80 trans as opposed to the AOD 4R75e which is kind of a slushbox. Starting in 1996, the Ford Securilock system was integrated into Ford cars and trucks, and in 1999, Ford upgraded to the PATS II system. Error codes and data logging help determine what components may need attention, and most systems now work over Wi-Fi. This port allows you to read error codes, look at logged and live data, and change computer programs. For example, a 2003 Mustang Cobra uses a male plug on the engine harness, and on the 2003 Mustang GT it is a female. The biggest hurtle youll have is tuning really and having to lock out vct makes the 3v swap pointless in my opinion. Generated in 0.029 seconds in which 0.014 seconds were spent on a total of 16 queries. Most diagnostic tools now have ports to talk to computers and the Internet for even more capabilities. The 2v with PI heads is a an exccelent power making motor. These systems were unusual in layout because they had some extra relay boxes, and this makes the conversion a bit cumbersome compared to later wiring harnesses. preferred-parts1 (1,509) 99.4%. seems like a ton of work and by no means is this an "easy" project. Rack n pinion steering, a front sway bar, disc brakes and probaly handles a lot better . Freeze-frame data records the engine performance, as well as speed, emissions, what gear you were in, everything. Once you have chosen an engine, it is time to select a computer and wiring harness to control the engine. That is the main reason I was wondering about the feasability of the SOHC 3v. Dec 30, 2015 3v conversion is not possible at the time, the junkyard already sold the pcm and wiring harness. They have horsepower, can make more horsepower very easily, are not as complicated as a newer throttle-by-wire engine, and look fantastic under the hood. i was told to buy an, lsittingbull thanks for replying, sorry no updates except I have cut 5 inches and shortened my crown vic. This pro street 1967 coupe is being fitted with the still popular 20032004 Cobra Terminator engine. The computer recorded all the data of the vehicle at the time of the error, including his test drive speed. The computer is already programmed to fire without the PATS system and it can be tuned just like any other Ford computer. Programming for the ECM is required.. Ford tends to route wires through multiple harnesses, so you need them all, and depending on the year, youll need items such as fuel pumps and controllers, perhaps even components you wont be using. - '94 GT Convertible 13.905 at 100.41 mph. It is possible to run your factory computer using an aftermarket wiring harness. (It also contains headlight wiring and a bunch of other stuff you will not need, but get it!) The stock 2003 computer mounting bracket is used to mount the computer and provides proper grounding. this is the GRM forum where small engines rule, so i'll be the one to suggest the turbo 2.3/T5 combo from the Thunderbird Turbocoupe. With the introduction of the EEC-V system in 1994 came the OBDII (On-Board Diagnostic II) set of standardized error codes, which are still in use as of this writing. You need to buy a wiring diagram! Swapping the whole motor and ecu seems like a PITA but a head swap, intake swap, and phaser lockout seems a lot simpler. Some manufacturers still use speed density. About | Contact | Terms | Privacy, Unless you will be using the stock pump and controller in your. Will it bolt up to my transmission? A programmer manufacturer can give you a list of tuners in your area, or you can work with one over the Internet. Plus you would have all the linkage and such to swap over or modify. Make sure that the system you choose is legal. Ford F-100 / F-Series Crown Vic Swap Adjustable Motor Mounts for Ford FE v8 352/360/390/427. The SN-95 Mustang engine compartment is wider and longer than the first-generation engine compartment. or a rotary out of an RX7.. 1929 wheat penny. The pistons are 4-5cc range which would put the static CR in the 11.4-11.5 range with PI heads (probably too high for stock cams). Even the earliest EEC-IV computers could communicate running information and errors incurred. I did a lot of work at Ford and was at the StThomas assembly quite a bit, where they made the Crown Vic's, Grand's and Town Cars. CD, or direct online schematics, it is up to you. Zlib compression enabled. My boys are getting to the driving age and I think it would be a great project to get them involved with and get their minds working. The knock sensor will pull a [censored] load of timing before that happens. Long blocks seem to be the same, as usual since Ford likes to stamp out the same thing to put in as many vehicles as possible. "We also offer complete wiring systems for the 2005 to 2009 Mustang GT 3-valve 4.6 engine and manual transmission." They have an automatic version as well. I know that's a rough estimate for drivetrain power loss percentage, but short of dynoing the engine itself before installation it's as close as we can get to figuring out the crank number AFAIK. As far as track width, it's over 3" narrower than the Crown Vic front end as well. Ford F-100 Crown Vic Front Suspension Swap. They are available in book or digital format for your computer. Error codes are primarily usedfor emissions issues, and when your PCM senses a problem, it stores a DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) and turns on the check engine light on the dash. Along with the standard industry error codes, each manufacturer has some proprietary codes that are available to cover specific features of its vehicles. Just like stangaddiction said itll raise your compression ratio a lot and that high I wouldnt trust using a 93 octane tune with it being safe. The shock towers were removed to make room for the wide DOHC heads. Ive honestly always thought the same thing. Because of this, it can sometimes be very inefficient on fuel mileage. Crown Victoria - Engine Swap Depot Crown Victoria Crown Victoria with a 5.0 L Coyote V8 January 5, 2022 Crown Victoria The owner of this 2006 Ford Crown Victoria sent it to National Speed for a serious performance upgrade. the 6.2l uses different sensors for the crank and cam pick-ups then what the 4.6l 2v uses. 5.7 Hemi, 8 speed ZF trans 3.06 open rear 13.98 @ 99.2 mph 4740 lbs with driver!! Next in the firing order is Cylinder #3, located on the same side. 2005 Cadillac CTS-V. - '96 Cobra 13.45 at 104.458 mph. He had some explaining to do.). DaewooOfDeath wrote: Junkyard 4.6 plus blower seems obvious. $62.50. Strong engine, but you may have a struggle getting the torqshift to work properly. Low-cost code readers, available at most auto parts stores, read these codes, and can erase them, as well. The car has received a mini tub in the back and all four fenders have been flared 112 inches. The crossmember was notched slightly to clear the curve of the factory oil pan. For a nice primer on hopping-up Mod Motors from our sister publication EngineLabs, go here. For Ford F100 F-100 Crown Vic Steel Front Pair Suspension Swap bracket kit. The 4.6 mustang makes 300. If it's a 3 valve it will be straight. #3. This information is useful not only for drag racers with laptops; familiarity with the capabilities of your engines computer system and ways to optimize your engine swap will help you meet the goals for your project. About the time the VI-VCT engines came out, Ford improved the PATS system to the point that aftermarket performance tuners found it difficult to bypass the system. Ford may have multiple harnesses within a year and model that cannot be interchanged. The stock fuel pump controller was mounted down in the driver-side quarter panel. This Snap-on Modis Ultima can graph performance data, run tests on individual components, watch data live and can even provide tips and recommendations based off of the data received. Will it fit? The EEC-VII system uses a computer housing similar to the EEC-VIs, but it uses the three connectors on the end or top. I run a shortblock from a 07 3v with 44cc TFS 2V Heads. 2004 Crown Vic LX SOLD!! 14.46 @ 95.59 / 14.50 @ 95.91 tuned by Darrin at BC Automotive. While I wish you all the best there is no way you are anywhere near 300 hp (let alone 450 hp) with stock 2v heads and cams. i bought a 6.2l short block and heads for it. She is rust free but does have minor exterior hail damage and could use a paint job. The 5.0 Coyote made its debut in 2011, as the high tech replacement for the 4.6L modular engine. I haven't heard od a DOHC 5.4 being installed in a CV, probably because its too wide, but would a 3V 5.4 fit? checkout some of the project updates, theres about 3-4 in there that people have But I just mentioned that 3V uses a different intake, of which several high-performance models exist. Written by Dave Stribling and Posted with Permission of CarTechBooks. A second oval grommet from a salvage yard harness seals the harness as it passes through the firewall. Non-supercharged engines can mount over the front axle if desired. Unlike other makes where the basic scheme doesnt change much, the Ford system has changed considerably over the years and has had at least four base configurations as of this writing. All Ford modular engines come with mass air fuel injection systems from the factory. Get the body harness (the other 70 pin connector on the PCM) so you can cut that up to fit the crown vic. That is when they went to the PI stuff, also the 4.6 in the 2004 and later cars are rated @ 250hp, exacly the same engine as the 260hp 'Stang engine. Determine what, if any, other components from the donor vehicle you would like to use (e.g., transmissions, ABS, electric windows). The following errors occurred with your submission, Lightning, Harley-Davidson F-150, Roush F-150 & Saleen F-150, Conventional (Bumper Pull) Towing; Travel Trailers & Pop-ups, Toy Hauler Towing; Fifth Wheel & Bumper Pull, Flatbed, Car, Boat, Utility, Horse & Misc. TL;DR: He has a 2v. In 2015 the control box shape changed slightly, going back to a two-connector design. While this is a simple system used in some race cars, it is not recommended for most street and street/strip applications, as it doesnt take into consideration any exhaust gas information or emission information. . 4v? Say I got my hands on a 4.6 3v and wanted to drop in my 2009 P71 Crown Vic. Come join the discussion about performance, racing, builds, modifications, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Free returns. We also offer complete wiring systems for the 2005 to 2009 Mustang GT 3-valve 4.6 engine and manual transmission.They have an automatic version as well. Paul's high performance swapped a 6.2l in a 10 mustang. To fit it in the truck we got a front frame clip from a wrecked crown Vic police car with heavy duty suspension.and attached it to the original chassis and boxed original frame and 9 inch rear end. If you get 360 at the wheels, then yeah you're probably close-ish to 450 at the crank, as 360 is 80% of 450. For more information on this product or to see the complete offerings from Ron Francis wiring, go here. Respi Mee Sup Sabahiiat. VI-VCT used on the Coyote engines does the same for the exhaust cam and eliminates the need for an EGR system and improves emissions. Some of these systems are best controlled using a factory computer. The EEC-IV computer module is easily identified by its three rows of pins on the main plug. Privacy Statement - You can certainly purchase a programmer and work with tuning your vehicle, but there is a learning curve to becoming adept with tuners. The PCM harness comes out through the side panel and into the passengers side through the corner firewall. Most MAF systems use sequential fuel injection, which means the fuel injectors are only firing once per cycle, making them more efficient than some speed density systems that fire every revolution (also called waste spark). i appreciatte any advice or sugestions, dont know thats a werid but unique swap the the 6,2 is a 3v engine ? This function can test whether a sensor or switch is turning on or off, can measure the percentage of sensor in use, or the voltage reading of the sensor. With this level of communication, you are going to hear your tuner or mechanic talk about specific terms. but later on in the months I decided to just work with what I have already. Like with the Mustang in Black (see Chapter 2), this owner wanted to take full advantage of all the capabilities of the newer Cobra such as ABS, modern cruise control, and returnless fuel injection. The 4.6 liter engine was the replacement for the Windsor family of Ford V8's. ", but had I noticed that someone resurrected a two year old thread with a "gee, what's going on with this project" question my post would have been far more entertaining. Nuremberg. Archive - The mass air meter heats up a small wire and then measures the resistance in the wire. The computer can tell you more about what is happening with the engine than any external device. Some harness manufacturers require you to send in your old harness so they can reuse some of the original Ford connectors, which may be obsolete and not readily available (some that are available are not good quality). Mass air systems are typically less tolerant of big tuning changes than speed density systems due to the sizing of the mass air meter. New diagnostic equipment scans live and stored data, graphs operating conditions, and even recommends a plan to correct the problem. And the same goes for the wiring; you may have to extend, trim, or tuck away wiring that doesnt quite fit. About 1999, the Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) was improved, and installing aftermarket components such as instrumentation became difficult. I was just going to have a cam sprocket machined for the driver cam with the pip on it, a crank trigger wheel for the front and just use the engine harness PCM and sensors from the 4.6l that originally came in the car. https://www.patreon.com/nathansgarage?fan_landing=trueOk.the orange one was an F250 but it definitely is more F100-like now. I guess there is a couple ways to do this. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. OBDII rules dictate a standard set of PIDs that all scan tools can read; Ford has some proprietary ones that may or may not be readable by non-Ford scan tools. From 0cc to -20cc dish piston, if your cams (aftermarket) have too much duration/lift is when notche. Outside of figuring out where to mount the cable for the clutch and modifying the shifter with a 2005-ish Mustang boot and some aluminum, it went . I don't see why it would be endless headaches. As I outlined in the introduction, one of the advantages to a modular engine swap is the ability to get information from the computer for both maintenance and performance tuning. For the 2005 to 2009 Ford Mustang 3-Valve 4.6 V8 Modular Engine with manual transmission, they have you covered here as well. A big change in fuel injection or camshafts may mean that a larger MAF meter is required, and the system cant be tuned without changing several items at once. What kind of electronics would it take to get it to work in a Panther? Circuits from the engine area and interior terminate here, and if you plan on using the original harness, you need to get all of the special items like this. Trying to put 3V heads on your 2V block sounds like a recipe for endless headaches. Wouldn't it be possible to tap into the ECU and make it functional? SHARE THIS ARTICLE:Please feel free to share this article on Facebook, in Forums, or with any Clubs you participate in. For the later VCT engines, the Ford Control Pack will also control the variable cam timing. cams, sheet metal intake I made, injectors I cant remember the poundage though, billet fuel rails, 100mm tb, cam covers that I made. (something different) i have welded my rear doors shut and i shaved the rear door handles, the car looks realy good it has a real nice lean look and the stance with factory suspension looks fantastic. All of these systems were the mass airflow type and used coil packs (modular engines do not use a distributor). Basically this thread is only about a higher compression engine wich usually net a 15% gain for a full point of compression bump so we are even farther in hp gain than we expected with the 3v heads swap. usually net a 15% gain for a full point of compression bump so we are even farther in hp gain than we expected with the 3v heads swap. Contact Us - Ford is very good at keeping the wiring colors consistent, but it doesnt really want you interchanging harnesses. The first is a basic low-cost code reader, the second is scan tools and data loggers, and the third is programmers. SVT FOX thinks I have a mustang with a 6.2l in it. . This is probably too pie in the sky to be practical, but what would it take to put a 3V engine in a Panther, assuming you locked out the cam phasers to disable the VVT system? Try to find the whole truck so you get the motor, trans and elec. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. i called around asking about what computer i should use, i have been told to use the FRPP 3.V kit for the 6.2 in my crown vic and have it calibrated for my engine, the heads will be stock no cnc work. but livernoise will be making me a set of cams and springs for it soon. From what I've read, some of the changes to the Panther suspension in '03 were to fit the quad cam 4.6 in the Marauder. Some manufacturers still sell speed density systems, and they use a Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor to measure the pressure inside the intake manifold. So, he opted for one of Pier's pedal swap kits, which is mostly based on New Edge-era Mustang parts. Check out our discussions on the Ford Escape, Mustang, Edge, F-150, Raptor, Explorer, Focus, Fusion, Fiesta and more! JCG1 im going to stop using modular fords forum and use another forum. The PCM won't be able to tell the difference between the old and new. However, a simple software jump in the PCM programming could defeat these systems. The DTC follows the industry standard OBDII numbering system. Out the factory door, the P71 Interceptor Crown Vic managed 239 horsepower out of its 4.6 liter V8. It doesnt measure the volume of air coming into the engine; it uses a big internal table of fuel curves and uses these calculations to determine the amount of fuel to deliver to the engine. Thanks to Chevyguy who reviled me that Ford Racing has a Control Pack that allows easy installation of a 4.6 3V (300hp stock or 350hp with cams) engine into a vehicle with a manual transmission. Thanks to the shared 34-inch framerail spacing, the Crown Vic assembly is easily adapted to the 1967 Ford F-100 . The HPT Tuner Suite puts the power of a professional tuning shop on your home PC. Unless you are a wizard with fuel curves and shift points, you will be working closely with a tuner, and they will probably use the tuner they are most comfortable using (see Chapter 10).
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