MORRISON: I never know what to think about these feelings that people get. I kind of. The film ends with the Bagbys and their relatives, friends, and colleagues reflecting on the father and son, as well as the . But two months later, that would change, after Shirley appealed, again to be released on bail. Kind of panic sets in, I guess, and that's when it all hit the fan, I guess. MORRISON: Coming up, a knock at the door, and then the news. And Im blessed to have David and quite frankly David is blessed to have me, said Kate. Ms. TURNER: (Audio recording) Then I can't consent to more time right now. He said, `The psychotic bitch. January 15, 2008: David bagby, left, and kate bagby, right, celebrate with their son andrew bagby at his graduation from medical school at memorial university of newfoundland in june 2000. contributed by david and kate bagby. | Learn more about Tessa Bagby's work experience, education . MORRISON: Andrew's best friend, filmmaker Kurt Kuenne, suddenly, just knew what he had begun as a small film to memorialize his old friend. Shirley Turner, awaiting, extradition for murder, was out of prison on bail. Unidentified Woman #11: I love them very much. He's a little bleary eyed, but. Mr. BAGBY: Oh, yeah. He was in, Mr. SHEARS: I would cook supper sometimes when she wasn't around. Asked if he would have done anything different back then, David replies, kill Shirley Turner.. because it's hard to get off Newfoundland. As one friend said, Hes like the blessing Andrew left behind. It was for Zachary that Andrews parents retired, cashed in all their savings and moved from their lifelong home in Pennsylvania to Newfoundland, where Shirley Jane Turner lived. We would've done handstands and cartwheels to. And that's when it all hit the fan, I guess. Every last person who steps foot into a theater to see this will walk away changed. How else do you represent almost virtually the same crime happening back to back despite the hindsight in between? Its been more than 10 years since the Bagbys have been back to Newfoundland and Labrador. And we came back. With that kind of goodness, anything is possible. Dear Zachary recently won the Sigma Delta Chi Award for Best Documentary of 2008 from the Society of Professional Journalists. Senator Tommy Banks of Alberta will be the bill's sponsor in the Senate, and will shortly be distributing DVDs of "Dear Zachary" to all members of the Senate, just as he and MP Andrews distributed the film to all members of the House of Commons last fall when he introduced the bill. Cpl. I didn't even know why I was going, other than Mom didn't want. They also have Andrews friends, like Kuenne, who remain in their current lives and with whom they can talk about Andrew. Kuenne, a childhood friend of Andrews, started out to make the movie as a tribute to Andrew, but it kept taking on new meanings, first with Zacharys birth and then his death. Mr. BAGBY: He's now engaged to this lovely girl, and he's going to go to med school. MORRISON: Zachary fell asleep in his car seat. MP Andrews was inspired to create Bill C-464 after seeing Dear Zachary for the first time in March; he and Senator Tommy Banks distributed DVDs of Dear Zachary to every member of the House of Commons for their review immediately following the December 4th discussion. Former Assistant Pastor at Jackson Community Church. MORRISON: But Shirley would make it tough for Andrew to do that. Mr. SHEARS: Yeah, I guess it did at the time, but I still didn't have, MORRISON: How difficult must it have been to ingratiate, themselves with their son's suspected killer? Hello. MORRISON: As Kurt tracked down Andrew's friends for the documentary he was making, he discovered that not a one had anything favorable to say about Shirley. There won't be any question about, whether she can hurt him. They held their breath. She. The film is by the phenomenal writer, director and composer Kurt Kuenne. David Bagby, left, and Kate Bagby, right, celebrate with their son Andrew Bagby at his graduation from medical school at Memorial University of Newfoundland in June 2000. If you were to dream up the perfect set of parents, it would be Kate and David Bagby. And then we'd do it through the lawyers. Mr. BAGBY: She told the court she was afraid we would harm the baby. A huge chunk of the remainder of Dear Zachary is the Canadian justice system treating the Bagbys like common criminals while the actual criminal is given a breathtaking amount of freedom. Dear Zachary was named one of the top 5 documentaries of 2008 by the National Board of Review! It also recently screened at the Calgary International Film Festival and the Edmonton International Film Festival to standing ovations from Canadian audiences, where it inspired many audience members to write their Parliament in support of bail reform. Mr. BAGBY: That's one of the options, and that's the one we hoped for. At least he might have asleep when she went in. We had negotiated a one-hour-a-week visitation in family court. On a shelf in the California home of David and Kate Bagby, sitting inconspicuously among some lovely china, are two urns. T.J. and his girlfriend went to bed. Subscribe here. I had two sisters already, so a brother, because now I'd have somebody that I can teach about hockey and, (Shears and Zachary; photo of Shears and Zachary). They hadn't been identified, but it's obvious who they, MORRISON: He was right. Dance with the Devil: A Memoir of Murder and Loss: Add a bio, trivia, and more. Lori Kaufman rw. If you didnt realize the importance of that, Kuenne mutes the film to let you process it. USA | Canada | UK, Original poster artwork by Evan B. Harris, Proceeds from this film benefit the Dr. Bagby Scholarship and the Dr. Andrew Bagby and son Zachary Bursary, Watch this short film to see the quest to complete Dear Zachary and amend Canadian bail law. On Nov. 5, Kate, who is originally from England, pictures Turner sitting on top of a Guy Fawkes bonfire and her family all around it with fireworks. MORRISON: Shirley Turner, also a doctor in training, was 12 years older than Andrew, twice divorced, a mother of three. he was fussy at all. Some of, those frames even at the dollar stores will say--there'll be little sayings on, Ms. TURNER: (Audio recording) if you want to say `Mommy and Daddy' on a. frame and stick a picture of me and Andrew in it, I don't know. Cpl. Because she didnt know love either. would be the difference if one person weren't alive? She was, pregnant, and the baby was Andrew's. 2015 - 20153 . It brings its own special brand of. Our SaltWire team is always watching out for the place we call home. This film was no longer a letter to you, Unidentified Man #23: Well, everybody always says, well, what. Bagby, that man about whom no one had a bad word, was left lying face down in a Pennsylvania state park with five bullets in him. Photo courtesy of David and Kathleen Bagby, dear zachary a letter to a son about his father, Defector Freelancer Policies, Created In Partnership With The National Writers Union. Zachary, I love you, baby. (Trailer park; parking lot; water; Kurt on boat; excerpts from "Dear Zachary"; houses seen through rainy window; Kate and Zachary). The upbeat music stops and a little boy who speaks in that lispy slow muckle-mouthed way little boys do, asks, Why did Andrew get killed?. MORRISON: Despite it all, the Bagbys were thrilled to be living, with Zachary. On the 5th, however, Turner appeared back in Latrobe. David and Kate Bagby moved to St. John's. They forged a relationship with the woman they believed killed their son so they could see Zachary, their only grandchild. Mr. BAGBY: (Talking in group) This is about making public exactly what, MORRISON: The Bagbys' public outrage had some results. (Canadian flags; Newfoundland; lake and coast; man in coat; photos of Shirley, and Zachary; Kate, David and Zachary; Shirley, Kate and Zachary; Supreme Court, building; photos of David, Kate, Zachary and Shirley), Mr. BAGBY: Dealing with Turner was like, I don't know, walking around with. But a few weeks later, she showed up in Pennsylvania, unexpected, for the wedding of one of his friends. Kate to keep up their end of that bargain. You can't tell them this over the phone. He said, `What can happen?'. And as tragic as this story is, that is also where its consolation lies: that Shirley Jane Turner destroyed everything around her in an attempt to extinguish the love she was incapable of experiencing herself, and in the end she couldnt. to let out hints that Shirley Turner was the prime suspect. The Bagbys couldn't have been happier, particularly since. Couldn't be her. I thought if I do that, I go to prison, maybe Kate. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy and Cookie Statement and Your California Privacy Rights. What a flaky person. Mommy loves you. Was it a tight bond? And he's like, `I'm not looking for anything serious. will not hurt Zachary, period. With that kind of goodness, there is no limit to the possibility of transcending all manner of evil. Former Production Manager at Mountain Gospel Radio. They've retired, hang out with friends and travel a bit, David Bagby said. There was no way to stop Andrews murder, but there was no way to walk away from Zacharys body and just say hmm, okay, move on," said David. Zachary's life, even talking to her eldest son and his girlfriend about it. We made this place together, we own it together, we run it together. The strange allure of Robert Durst and The Jinx.. Unidentified Man #20: The weather here is terrible. Man #14: I admire you and respect you so much for two things. They are the opposite of Shirley Jane Turner. MORRISON: When T.J. heard about Andrew's murder Mr. SHEARS: I just figure, `OK, well, he was in America. Understood? That one comes back a lot. Kurt Kuennes 2008 documentary, Dear Zachary: A Letter to a Son About His Father, deserves a second look, especially in light of the recent popularity of true-crime programs like Serial and Making a Murderer., Photograph courtesy Oscilloscope Pictures / Everett. Dear Zachary had its Canadian premiere at the Hot Docs International Documentary Film Festival in Toronto, where it was welcomed by a line down the street and around the block to get in. He was like, `Eh, mm.' We. On December 4, 2009, Bill C-464 (our bail reform bill) was discussed on the floor of the House of Commons for a full hour, and MP Scott Andrews received unanimous support from all political parties in the House of Commons to advance the bill to the Standing Committee on Justice & Human Rights. If you were waiting to find out where exactly the comfort was in this litany of suffering, it is in Bagbys parents. You live your life, you create an entire universe around you, you trundle along, and then FUCK. Gruesome details, abstruse discoveries, and personal secrets are examined with a seemingly cold and impartial eye in the light of the promise that, if seen rightly, they can yield up a picture of the truth. Shirley asked them to take custody of Zachary while she was gone. I said, `This woman was in town. Kate & David Bagby will now be called as witnesses before the committee, the bill will be revised and strengthened, and eventually brought back into the House and Senate for a vote. I said, `Andrew,' I said, `be serious. You dont leave it behind. While that change felt good, David wanted more. "One of the best documentaries I have ever seen in my entire life a film that will rock you to your core. MORRISON: What was it like to hear that she was going to get out of prison? You take it with you, but you move on, said David. But I used to look at her hand and think, it. Laudable ambition, difficult to achieve. For the Bagbys, shock might have, (Photo of David and Zachary; photo of Kate and Zachary; Shirley being escorted, from court; court documents; court exterior; court documents; Kate and David), KATE: I'd sat in the back of the room while Judge Green said to her, `I'm so, sorry, Dr. Turner, your life is on hold, and I know the law is slow.' It comes down to probable cause, the right to bail and the presumption of innocence. doesn't take much to pull a trigger, does it? MORRISON: When you did find out that she was pregnant, what was your thought? Ms. TURNER: (Audio recording) I was really upset when you took him today, because I feel like I did the day you saw him at Unified Family Court. This is the first example in this story of someone seeing something bad coming but not being able to stop it. The documentary was originally released in 2008. Ms. TURNER: (Audio recording) It's either in my closet or my bedroom. He says his mother was so often, unavailable, especially from the time she started medical school. His father says, "I kissed him and held . It was like Andrew died and then was reborn for a second chance. Mr. and Mrs. David Bagby will be notified of the award, and may request background information on the recipient to facilitate any contact between the recipient and the Bagbys. Zachary didn't seem like. Andrew, despite his obvious abilities, was turned down by every medical school in the country. Blu-Ray | DVD, BLU-RAY Mr. SHEARS: When we woke up in the morning, realized they weren't there. It will make you question your faith in the world. Mr. BAGBY: Shirley killed Andrew. Maybe the last time you talked to Shirley there was some very subtle change in tone. I couldn't see the point anymore. Mr. BAGBY: Oh, this ranks right up there. Shirley, held his birthday party at McDonald's. Screening next at DocuWeek, the International Documentary Association's Theatrical Documentary Showcase. MORRISON: Shirley, meanwhile, seemed to be preparing for her, extradition, and perhaps she was looking for a way to exclude the Bagbys from. Keith Morrison reports. ', Mr. SHEARS: Things happen in America that don't seem to happen up here as. It also took 3rd place in the National Headliner Awards for Best Documentary of 2008, given by the Press Club of Atlantic City. (Newspaper rack; photo of Shirley and Zachary), Mr. BAGBY: (Press conference) I am going to continue to scream long and loud, MORRISON: The Bagbys have continued a campaign for the overhaul, of the bail system. Kate said Shirley insisted on keeping Zachary in, the deep pool, which frustrated him because he couldn't move on his own. But as someone else says, Grief is loves unwillingness to let go. So Andrew's father could just as easily be talking about love. KATE: It was shocking, but not a surprise. Newfoundlanders tend to trust each other, perhaps it's because, generally, With a skilled lawyer on hand to do Shirley Turner's bidding, the. the water. KATE: (Audio recording) Right. Why? Dear Zachary is as devastating as it is because it unravels the way bad things unravel in real life. (It was announced, in 2014, that the documentary would be made into a miniseries. "There, is no indication of a psychological disorder that would give concern about, potential harm to the public generally as her crime, while violent, was, specific in nature." Instead, the film's dramatic nodes are scenes such as the one in which Bagby's parents, David and Kate, recall going to identify their son's body. They might as well have sent a taxi to her to help take him out and drown him. David remembers uttering, "It's really him," and recalls how the two cried over the body, tears falling on to Andrew's face. Bring lots of kleenex and prepare to be equally angry and emotionally drained as you watch real, so-called justice in action. Mr. BAGBY: He's now engaged to this lovely girl, and he's going to go to med school. We're churning. On Aug. 18, 2003, while awaiting extradition to the U.S. on a charge of murdering Andrew, Turner jumped into the waters of Conception Bay South with her 13-month-old son strapped to her in a murder-suicide. MORRISON: The sea at midnight was endless black. MORRISON: A couple of hours later, there was another knock at the, Mr. BAGBY: Told us what happened. In Los Angeles - August 22-28 at the Arclight Hollywood, 6360 Sunset Blvd. We send a huge thanks to MP Scott Andrews, his assistant Ken Carter, MP Peter Stoffer, Senator Tommy Banks, his assistant Thrse Gauthier, Gord McIntosh and all those in Parliament who have seen across party lines and supported this bill to honor Andrew & Zachary and help prevent a recurrence of our story. But something kept me going, and. And thank God. Unidentified Man #25: I love them very much. But before that could happen, Shirley was apparently deemed neither, dangerous nor a flight risk and almost immediately released on bail, most of, it posted by one of her mentors from med school, a psychiatrist to whom she'd, gone for treatment after Andrew's murder. This movie is the kind of nightmare no one could dream up. I'm tired of this. KATE: (Zachary hugging Kate) This is your Uncle Kurt. -, "A 10 out of 10. Mr. BAGBY: We fret and worried and everything. Mr. BAGBY: Yes. but if we don't get help, we don't know if we're doing what's best. MORRISON: How did you find out what happened, how he had been killed? They are selfless. But that didn't erase their unease, or a remarkable feeling, (Shirley and Zachary at birthday party; David), Mr. BAGBY: I considered killing her myself, seriously considered it. David Bagby, left, and Kate Bagby, right, celebrate with their son Andrew Bagby at his graduation from medical school at Memorial University of Newfoundland in June 2000. Do you feel all right about putting, MORRISON: Safe and warm inside the Bagby house, as the gales of a, Newfoundland winter raged outside, the inevitable happened. Unidentified Man #24: Two I have ever known. Skewed imagery. Because this is where you need it. For this night they were a couple once again, dancing and drinking together. After the shooting, according to Kate, Turner called her claiming she was trying to reach Andrew. In 2006, the press was there again to cover the issuance of a report on the death of, (Newspaper article; David on TV show being interviewed; Confederation, Unidentified Reporter: (Newscast) The government has received a scathing. How dreadful the knowledge of the truth can be, wrote Sophocles, when theres no help in truth.. I mean, the best man is really the groom. thing, because up until Andrew was murdered, I was a Pollyanna. David Bagby. The amount of the award will be variable, but is expected to be in the range of $1,000. As religious as that may sound, that is a comfort. IE 11 is not supported. Read the DocuWeek Q&A with writer/director/composer Kurt Kuenne HERE. Typically, we meet the victim not as a person but as a dismantled puzzle to be put back together by the canny viewer, who is likewise appealed to not as a person hearing about a human catastrophe but as an analytical machine capable of sorting and weighing the relevant facts. See rank. Bagby came from Sunnyvale, California, and was the son of Kathleen Daphne Bagby ( ne Barnard), a registered nurse and midwife from Chatham, England, United Kingdom; and David Franklin Bagby, an American former United States Navy serviceman and computer engineer. Please check back for updates as the bill makes its way through the Senate in the coming weeks -- and if you are a Canadian Citizen, please write your Senator to voice your support of C-464 during this crucial time. Imagine it. This is not the worst instance in this story of someone seeing something bad coming but not being able to stop it. We just want as many people as possible to know this story, the documentary, for the practical reasons in my fantasies, I suppose some judge, some place, actually gets it and denies bail to somebody who could kill again. David Bagby. Jackson, Kentucky. And so, on August 18, 2003, Shirley Jane Turner kills Zachary. There are things to do, he said, and they try to enjoy life as much as possible. did. ', MORRISON: When Dr. Andrew Bagby's bullet-riddled corpse was, found in a Pennsylvania state park in November 2001, his devastated parents. She always spent time with him, and seemed to me like she was, MORRISON: Still grieving over the loss of their only son, David, and Kate Bagby had forsaken their lives in California and moved to, Newfoundland, not just to make sure justice was being served, but also to be, (Kate; David; Newfoundland; Supreme Court building; photo of Zachary), KATHERINE: There's this wonderful feeling, `I'm going to see part of Andrew. . Woman #11: Doesn't matter what happened. Shirley. She landed a residency at a hospital in Iowa, several states away but still close enough to allow occasional weekends with Andrew in Pennsylvania. MORRISON: And tell me about your mum with Zachary. ', Because I know you would be worried if we disappeared for a couple of days or, MORRISON: Was she planning something? But of course I didn't. It's great. (Kate and Zachary; judge in court; Shirley being escorted from court), Mr. KUENNE: I don't know. KATE: So this man said to me, `Do you know that Shirley Turner's pregnant with your son's child? Dr. Andrew Bagby was killed on November 5, 2001, by an older woman named Shirley Jane Turner, who he had dated at a low point in his life. But he was moved to honor his friend the best way he knew how, by making a film. Sometimes, if you are paying attentionclose attentionyou can see it coming, even if only barely. Not too long ago? MORRISON: But Andrew did agree to meet Shirley in a nearby park. Mr. BAGBY: What are you going to say that will MORRISON: And find something she did, going so far as telling, them that they had some anger issues which needed to be addressed by a, (Photo of Shirley; photo of Kate and David), Ms. TURNER: (Audio recording) There has been, I guess, a lot of, uncomfortable feeling on both our parts. But they also contribute to the feeling of watching something urgent and unmediated. Ms. TURNER: (Audio recording) This is Shirley Turner, yes. MORRISON: You're in turmoil at that point. MORRISON: The ammunition used to kill Andrew was CCI .22 caliber bullets. After Zacharys death, the Bagbys began a quest to have Canadas bail laws changed. Mr. SHEARS: I thought they were great with him. Sharing voices. But the tributes Kuenne collected remain the spine of the movie, alternating throughout with exposition of the murder and its aftermath. He'd been shot five times, including once in the back of the head, execution style. Unidentified Woman #12: We won't forget their son. Mr. SHEARS: She's kind of reliving a university life again. They are selfless. Mr. SIMPSON: Andrew, you know you can do a lot better. Mr. KUENNE: He liked playing bad guys a lot. The private member's bill was introduced by MP Scott Andrews of Newfoundland last fall after he saw "Dear Zachary" at a March 2009 screening in Ottawa and decided to do something about what he saw. I was like, `Oh, OK, yeah.' In the course of the next two yearsas Turners extradition process dragged on, as Bagbys parents moved from California to Newfoundland to fight for custody of the baby, and as the case eventually took an even more terrible turnthe film came to be about those events as well. to the house and found a card from a police officer that we knew. . Dear Zachary was the most honored film at Cinequest 18 in San Jose, receiving sustained standing ovations from packed houses at all 3 screenings and winning 2 awards - a Special Jury Award for Documentary Feature and the Audience Award. Because this is foreshadowing. 2015 - 2020. Ms. TURNER: (Audio recording) (Unintelligible) Hi, sweetheart. MORRISON: In Kurt Kuenne's documentary, Clark Simpson, one of Andrew's close friends at the hospital, remembers that November morning just two weeks later when Shirley surprised Andrew again. GARDNER: (Audio recording) Is this Dr. Turner? The album includes "Andrew", the 8 minute concert work Kurt wrote and recorded in Andrew's memory in 2002. MORRISON: How'd you feel about having a much younger brother come, Mr. SHEARS: I thought it was great. Mr. KUENNE: He warmed up to me as the--as the week wore on, MORRISON: But the Bagbys were especially anxious. Such choices make for a disorienting viewing experience, especially if youre accustomed to the conventions of slicker documentaries. -, "To give you an idea how powerful it is, I'll just say that there was a lot of audible sobbing during the credits.and the first question in the Q&A started like this: "First of all, holy crap. The Bagbys, who recently marked their 50th wedding anniversary, say it sustained them for nearly a decade as . And not just because its real. When he returned to the States, Shirley showed up soon after. then one day I realized what it was. Mr. BAGBY: I think it was a rage at the person who did this. Mr. BAGBY: I have a lot of trouble with those things too, and I suspect what really goes on, what's called intuition, is really a very, very complex calculation of lots of little indicators, little things that Andrew said on the phone maybe. We need each other, have each other to get through this.". You know what, when Andrew didn't show up at 7:30, I knew something was very wrong. We were kind of like, `Well, we're not the best ones to be taking care of a child.' He couldve introduced his friends death any way he wanted, and he went with this, with a kid who can barely pronounce the word killed asking why one of daddys friends has ended up that way. Well, I was hurt in an, accident. CONTRIBUTED BY DAVID AND KATE BAGBY Sixteen years have passed but for the Bagbys the story of the deaths of their only son and grandson resurfaces all the time. MORRISON: You didn't seriously think of--I mean, you talk about this plan Mr. BAGBY: Absolutely. There won't be any question about whether she can hurt, MORRISON: Coming up, as David Bagby wrestles with these terrible. GARDNER: (Audio recording) Yeah. He had returned to the US and had discovered a passion for family practice, where his love for people--and theirs for him--seemed as natural, as comfortable as the quiet town in Pennsylvania in which he'd chosen to live. The apparent culprit was a woman named Shirley Turner, whom Bagby had dated but had broken up with on November 4th, in Latrobe, just before putting her on a plane to Council Bluffs, Iowa, where she lived at the time. MORRISON: Andrew tried to make a clean break with Shirley in October 2001. December 10, 2007: The bill, if passed into law later this year, would justify detention in custody for those accused of a serious crime who are a potential danger to their own children under the age of 18. And thus the decision from which all else followed. Dance with the Devil is David Bagby's . August 5, 2008: Mr. BAGBY: We were out shopping or something. Help contribute to IMDb. And this is where director Kurt Kuenne is really smart. ', KATE: He's so loved. While the police investigation was still underway, Turner, a Canadian citizen, packed off to St. Johns, Newfoundland. The memory of their son and grandson are never far.. MORRISON: But then she claimed she couldn't find it. I'm just curious Ms. TURNER: (Audio recording) Yeah, and I wanted to know for safety. put Zachary on her lap to open presents, and he resists. I praise Kurt Kuenne for having the heart and determination to perfectly put together one of the most powerful documentaries I have ever watched. her. -, "urgent, furiousadmirably well editedthis incredible, well-researched documentary demonstrates the vast gulf one life can leave behind." After arriving home, she drove 900 miles back to Pennsylvania to kill the man who rejected her. His father says, I kissed him and held him. In the, tribute documentary their son's best friend Kurt Kuenne was making to someday, give Zachary, the Bagbys' friends recount how difficult it was for David and. They were good friends; it was he who Bagby had told about the fatal meeting with Turner beforehand. (SPOILER WARNING: Do not watch this short until you have seen Dear Zachary. I only live a block away.' It would take two weeks. David and Kate Bagby must have been saints to have had to tolerate personal dealings with their only child's murderess,and basically have to groval to her to even see their precious only-ever grandchild.Yet,they did whatever they could for the sake of Zachary.Most people (myself included) would have made away with Shirley Turner the first chance We did have him for a little while, she said. GARDNER: (Audio recording) I'm not going to kid you, Doctor. I lay in--laid there in bed a couple of times and thought, If I just kill her, Zachary will be safe. And I said, `Who?' Sixteen years have passed but for the Bagbysthe story of the deaths of their only son and grandson resurfaces all the time. Andrew's parents say he tried, frequently, to ease out of the relationship altogether, but Shirley wouldn't buy it.
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